PARTICIPANT FOUR

 - "sort of" familiar with hypertext
 - Showing first-class link:
P: So there's no, like, semantics or anything to that link; it's just there's a link and you don't know why.
 - Explain that could have a more semantic subtype of Link: "sure"
 - "Mmm-hmm", "OK" to everything else
 - While explaining that generic links can't be edited in-place, and pointing out aid=_, spontaneous:
P: If I deleted all of this...tag, and replaced it with just magicaldemoword, it would add all that tag in.
I: Yes, it would come back.
P: Ok, good.
 - of the transient nature of the generic link endpoint element
P: It's like just a construct for the...parser to use or something.

3:46 CAKE
 - Straight to edit
 - Quickly spots "some nice reference" (quickref)
 - Nouns, etc., so "food"
 - Of food: "I would consider that to be the parent of cake"
P: That way, and given that this system has, um, bi-linking, that means that when you get food, you'll be able to see cake as well, so...that's potentially useful.
 - "What I've done in my mind there is..." (a correct food->Food link)
 - baked goods, etc.; got the feeling that nodes here are CamelCase, so follows that
P: And, yeah, looks like it's created some links for me.

I: Would you have considered generic linking for that?
P: Uhhm...*thinks*...was that where the magical word thing? <I: Yeah> Um. Yeah, that would work too. <I: Ok.>

7:39 MULTIPLE UNITS
 - First thing: look at Elektricka "because I've seen that has the word Multiple Unit at the top"; makes link from "multiple unit train" to MultipleUnitTrain.
 - Uses that to create new blank page
 - Spots redness->doesn't exist
P: So now I can start to...sort of cull...text. And give that this type of wiki has transclusion, I'm going to see if there's anything I can...er, do directly, and if there's not, I'll edit---I'll add some onto MultipleUnitTrain and then transclude it back into these.
 - Writes a little prose with links to the two countries.
 - Heading for each country, by copy-pasting the heading markup
 - Looked at markup reference to see if it explains trans; doesn't. Goes to homepage to find demos instead.
 - Copies "transclusion markup" from demo
 - Pastes into MultipleUnitsTrains
P: Presumably the aid 1 and 2 are...enumerated, so I'm just going to put 1 and 2 in order.
 - Point out that can drop out IDs and it will generate for you. "Ok cool"
P: So I probably want the transclusion to be on the other pages, so I'm going to cut those [markup] and put them in the...into the individual pages, and then just say that I'm going to transclude them /to/ something else. To the...multipleunits<mutter>, so I'm just going to put them in a random place for now.
 - Looks at demo.4 "to see how translcusion worked" (the transcluded text)
P: Ok...so _potentially_ I'm not exactly sure /how/ I control...the link...on Demo.4 it looks like it /just/ puts the text in.
 - Clarify that, yes, it transcludes the whole of Demo.4  "Ok"
P: So Demo.4 is the source. <I: Yes <beg pardon, Phil?>>

I: Are you confused by the way it says /to/=Demo.4, when you pull the text /from/ that into 3?
 - P reconfirms that transclusion operates on entire node
P: So maybe I want a...separate node that's just for the text, then.
 - Dithers a little about where to put the transclusion [markup]; puts in both MultipleUnitTrain and MultipleUnitsOfIreland "so that they basically share...content"
 - Makes to= link in both MUIreland.Trans (likewise for Elektrichka
P: Save that, see what happens, /may/ error...  <transcluded node nonexistant>
P: Ok, that's cool.
 - Spots links in relations table; goes to Trans from there.
 - Cuts text from original pages to put in Trans subnodes
 - Specifying anchorids by copying caused some confusion in the system; P understands problem once explained (15:00 roughly)
 - Replaces first paragraph in MUI with clean trans link from MUT, puts text in Trans page.
 - Asks what order to save them in
 - Reminds trans of demo that pushed changes through
P: Ah ok so I should change the sources first. The things I'm going to transclude.
 - Does so, .Trans gets turned into "something" from element content
P: Oh ok so you're saying it pushed them through so what I'll do is I'll just save all these---I'll just save everything and then I'll resave the things that were transcluded
 - Self-conflict from going back in browser to re-save, resolves conflict trivially [keeps happening, yaybugs, goes view fresh view/edit and clipboard]
 - Refreshes pages, "yeah it's pulled that information back in"
P: I think the two original pages /look/ identical to how they were
 - Success, with some minor upset from stupid anchor conflicts. Nasty UI, nasty.

20:33 BELGIUM
P: Ok! I'm not familiar with how this works so I'm just going to edit, jump in, and copy the markup.
 - Looking at input boxes: "this is different to Wikipedia; this is interesting"
 - Quickly spots that there is already a box for the required field
 - Spots date format in other fields and uses that ("actually the rest of them look like they're in a different format so let's do <YYYY-MM-DD version>")
 - That's it!
P: Cause basically as well there's a link to this Date thing so I'll have a quick look at that but I suspect this will...yeah so it tells me how to format it, good. Then I'm confident that it's correct.

22:02 BACK TO MULTIPLE UNITS
 - I had been distracted by "it being broken" (anchor bug)
I: What if someone needs to make a correction in one of these summaries?
P: <if then> They should look at the transclusion link for that and make an edit there.

22:43 UNDERGROUND
 - looks for "anything weird like transclusions"
 - edits fact into first paragraph
 - Getting to TiL:
P: Scroll to the bottom, and yeah there's a link, good <relations table>
 - Plans to transclude it; thinks for a while about "what's the easiest way"
 - Plans to add [trans] markup to TiL; finds its not in clipboard
 - Copy and pastes fact instead
I: So you were originally going to use transclusion but then changed your mind.
P: Yeah. I couldn't remember how to do it and there was---I couldn't find it in the reference for <mumble; the quickref>
I: ok

25:46 VILLAINS
 - Already knows that both films have Jaws (but then is repeat participant)
 - Makes change in both nodes
P: If I were to be more of a curator I would...find the content that's the same and pull it out, but...I think the Wikipedia way to do that would be to write a bot.
 - Notes that the text is "identical in parts", so could "write a little script that went through all the nodes and found similar text"
I: Right, so you'd actually generalise the problem of there being duplicated text in the wiki at all?
P: Yeah. <muffled> <I: Ok> Or at least made a helper app that presented me with a gazetteer that I could choose from.
 - I asks for clarification on gazetteer
P: Like if there were headings that were identical or, you know, close...fuzzy close text, then, like "Jaws", like Jaws could mean lots of things so I would at least...write<?> myself with something that said "I found five Jawses, do you want to make any of them---do you want to transclude into a separate node and combine them?" And then I would be like "yes" for these two, and then "no" for the film "Jaws".
I: Right, so you'd write a tool on top of this which is spotting identical sections, and presenting them to you, and then offering to transclude their content.
P: Yeah so that way if I wanted to do this I could just... <I: ok> tell my tool "oh, I think there's a problem with HiMR and HiSWLM", because cut and pasting text is a bit, you know...
P: And potentially you could say that...that's where you'd have a plugin to the...to the wiki or something as well but...not sure that---I don't know if that's---if plugins to tools are the best way or if just you know...a little script to do it for me.
 - If wanted to merge these then, what would your tool/you *do* to combine them?
P: I would cut and paste out the same text---if I found the same text in both, or something that was close enough I'd /curate/ a piece of text so that it becomes both, put it into a separate node, and than transclude the node and put it into both.
P: Probably into a Jaws node, that you can then link to as well.

29:44 SHELF
 - Familiar with disambiguation pages
 - Spots immediately in relations table
 - Edit on Shelf node to get names of nodes while other are loading, but realises "actually they're probably in the bottom---they're actually in the bottom there in the relations table so I can do that too".
 - Spots "Shelf" in River quickly; edits; finds text in source "I've seen the to=", determines it should be a place and changes it.
 - Would preview if was Wikipedia
 - For albatross, spots in view, not sure which kind of shelf, looks at Shelf page to choose between continental/ice; looks through to nodes for those shelf types to see if they say anything about birds
 - Reads albatross some more for context "more clearly"
 - After some consternation, I points out it doesn't really matter, pick one
 - Checks River etherow, "when you click shelf...and it looks like it's correct"
 - Finds to= link in source of albatross, changes to IceShelf
P: Click preview, just to...see what it's like. Ah ok and it puts the preview underneath, so that's nice.
 - Saves
P: Then /presumably/, if I go back to the shelf page...refresh it after it's finished, then the relations will be---will have disappeared hopefully.
 - Ok, yeah "so there's only out relations, and in relations are the Homepage, so that's good"
 - What was your reaction when went to edit albatross?
P: Yeah, er, that's because there was a lot of text, and the markup for each link is...really it's quite verbose, cause it's all the internal link, so...for example, in MediaWiki's markup, um <can discuss? yes> so, in MediaWiki's it's...if for example the link name is the same as the text you can---all you have to do is put some brackets around it. I think like double square bracket? <I: yeah> Then...and so that, you can actually read that inline.
P: Um, whereas obviously this was so big, and that the paragraph was...was just a lot of text, that it just meant that you couldn't follow the...couldn't jump into the paragraph immediately so, I had to go back.
 - Can you think of another way you could have made that change that avoided it?
 - P suggests Search-in-page

35:31 WRAPUP
 - No final comments/thoughts
 - Yes results
 - Yes voucher

