PARTICIPANT EIGHT

Showed first-class link, relations table, embedding. "Ok."
Showed transclusion and editing. "Ok."
Showed generic linking. "Ok."

3:42
Wanted clarification on first-class linking "is that the same as regular linking?" Showed embedding and the link node itself. "I see, ah ok."

5:01 LONDON UNDERGROUND
goes to edit
"And then look for...wherever I might want to insert it into the document"
"And then literally add the text"
puts it "directly in the history"
"Probably preview" [does] "and then save...er...yep"

"Presumably it will be linked from somewhere"
I: "Yeah, you can go via the Homepage"
"Ok"

I: "And you've used the link from the relations table" [on the Homepage]
"Yep"

I: "Right, so you've found the section"
"Yep, I'd probably... ... Not sure exactly how to do it but I'd put a trans...transcribe? the content into here, perhaps?"
I: "Transclude the content."
"Transclude link one, yeah."
I: "So you'd want to transclude a /section/ of that other page."
"Yeah. Is that possible, or can you only transclude in whole..."
I: "You first have to break it into its own little tiny node saying 'oldest metro', and transclude it into both."
"Ok"
I: "Want to do that?"
"I'll give it a go"
I: "Ok, well go to London Underground"
"Yeah"
I: "You'll need to edit it"
I: "Right, you need to create a link to that piece of text; to break it into a new node"
"Ok"
I: (square brackets)
I: "Link...I think it's documented down there [Ok]...to...make up a node name for it; LondonUndergroundOldest, it doesn't really matter."
I: "You want to specify Type=Transclusion, capital T"
"Is that spelt correctly?"
I: "Think so, yep"

"And the link text"
I: "The link text...you want that to be the thing so want to be transcluding, so that what happens when you save this is that this piece of text you put here is broken out and put into the LUOldest node"
"Ok. Can---so then just save this?"
I: "Yep"

I: "Ok, the text is there"
"Mmmhmm. So now if I got back into the...Transport..."
"Edit that page"
I: "You'll do the same thing this time, but not include the body text (mumble) copy that automatically"
"So, link...to?"
(something about putting it in the clipboard)
I: "Equals...LUOldest I believe. And you want Type=Transclusion"
I: "Previewing...[doesn't show] it might have worked anyway. Unfortunately this wiki's been modified quite heavily from a previous system and unfortunately the preview isn't entirely reflecting the more complicated bits."
"Ok, so I'll save it and see if it's on the actual page. Yes, that worked."
I: "Good. Thanks."

10:19 MULTIPLE UNITS
I: "...they're both examples of the same kind of thing, so you have the Ireland page, and you have the Russian page, the Elektrichka."
P: "Mmmhmm."
I: "What I'd like you to do is...create a small page about multiple units in general, including short descriptions of these two things---the Irish version and the Russian version."
P: "Ok. Erm. What's the the Multiple Units of Ireland again? Just might help me understand some context..."
I: "Ok, Multiple Units are a kind of train, and there are pages for them specific to Ireland, and a page for them specific to Russia, which is the Elektrichka."
P: "I see, ok."
I: "So what I want you to do is make a page on Multiple Units in general which includes some of the summaries of these specialised types."
P: "Ok. So, I will probably...{quiet: in fact revision edit that page?}."
I: "Looks good."
P: "Create a new page...erm. Not sure how I do that."
P: "Can I just go to page..."
I: "Yep, so you're editing the address bar."
P: "Let's call it...MU."
I: "Yep, fine" (autocomplete fun)
I: "And that creates a link" ('to create page')
P: "Ok, and then...syntax for titles, is that the same as in..."
I: "Erm, it's shown down there, it's [heading ]. Sorry, I didn't give you the syntax---it's a simple tree structure with square brackets, and think the one you wanted was [heading ]; yes, there it is, the example's down there."
P: "Oh yeah."
I: "You don't need to specify level if it's number one."
P: "Ok. Er, I'll just...just call it MU. And then...you said you wanted this to link to the other articles?"
I: "Yes, I want it to reference the other articles, and a brief summary of what they are."
P: "Ok."
P: "Is level one this... <I: yes> so I want level two headings <I: ok> each describing Ireland and..."
I: "It's Ireland and Russia" (mumbling about soviet but russia will do)
P: "And then, probably, have a...first class link in here, to go to the main article?"
I: "Ok"
P: "I think that would be [link to=...is that right?"
I: "Yep...MultipleUnitsOfIreland, presumably? Because you're doing a straightforward link, you can just do link to=the thing and then some text to link with."
P: "Ah, ok."
I: "Don't have to worry about types."
P: "And then a similar business under the Russia heading."
I: <You are> "copy-paste that" <link>
P: "Copy paste that name" <Elektrichka>
P: "And then...I don't know if er..."
<pause for save>
I: <error> Unexpected space in the value of---
P: ---oh, just here
I: Space after the equals sign
P: Yeah. And saving...and yeah.
P: Is that the sort of thing you're after?
I: Yeah, that'll--good. Ok.

13:53 SHELF
 - Familiar with WP disambig pages
P: "So change it so that if I go to the Shelf article, it /doesn't/ go to the disambiguation page, it goes to some---one of these you mean?"
 - Clarify.
P: "So I'd probably look at the relations table to see which...pages link to this page, and then edit those original references, perhaps?"
P: "Oh, this is outgoing, isn't it. Are these, these incoming links?"
I: "Yeah"
P: "Incoming links that link /to/ this."
 - Opens river and albotross in tabs
 - Not sure which should go to (I: have to look at article for context)
 - Search-in-page for Shelf
 - Presumes river is shelf, West Yorkshire (I: You're right)
 - Copy S,WY from address bar
 - Edit rivers page
 - Attempts to search in edit page, but doesn't work in browser
P: "So I change...just this?" (to part)
 - Slight problem with extra space copied again
I: "So you've found the embedded version of that link within that paragraph <yeah> and changed the to attribute"
 - Checks that it "seems to have worked" by hovering over saved view and seeing where link aims
 - Plans to do similar on Albatross; searches in page but doesn't find; spots manually
I: "Don't worry about the broken links" (explain red cue)
 - Tries to work out which shelf it is; I: Continental, yes
P: "Doing a similar thing again, copy from the address bar...and then editing the Albatross page"
I: Having found where the shelf link is in the view of the page, you're now looking at the source
P: Mmmhmm
P: <long pause, >20s> "Can't remember exactly where it is, but..."
P: "Ah, shelf, to=Shelf"
I: So you've found it in the source quite quickly
P: Change the to= attribute again <OK> and then save it
 - Takes >40s to save
P: Now that this is saving, is there a typically better way of doing that, or isthat...
I: Erm, there is another thing you could have done---you actually found it quite quickly there, but...what was your opinion when you hit source there and saw the text?
P: Heh. It was like "aaaah! words"
I: Yeah, there's quite a lot of words there.
I: The other was you could have approach it---can you take a guess?
P: Could have changed the---if it's a first-class link, could I have gone to that node <yes> and edited the link?
I: Yeah. How would you have found the first-class link?
P: Er...looking at the...looking at the source of the page perhaps, or I wonder if it would be on the Shelf page?
I: You just corrected it, so it won't be now I'm afraid, but yes it would have been. It showed in the relations table.
P: And then...go to that first class link.
I: OK. That's good. Thank you.

19:48 BELGIUM
 - Show attribute box, "OK"
P: I think it might in the source of the page, so I go to edit
P: Down the bottom, no, ah, there's attributes at the bottom
P: Erm...
 - Looks at other area, looks at table
P: Is this already in the table or---no, it doesn't seem to be.
...
P: Nope... (much scanning up and down)
I: It's sorted alphabetically.
P: Ah, sorry, it's already there! Ok.
P: Which was...?
I: 25th March 1957
 - Attempts preview (not supported)
P: Not sure if that'll be... <no>
(while waiting to save)
P: Is there any easier way to add /other/ attributes, or...cause that's what I was looking for originally---I couldn't; I didn't realise that this was already in the table, so I was looking for a way to---
I: There's no way to add rows to the table, no, but this other box uses the same syntax as the markup (etc.)
P: Ok
P: So does it get this list from the type or something?
I: Yes. (shows EUAccession node, that has domain + range)
P: Oh ok.
(explain domain/type matchup)
P: Ok so I assume does every page just has by default a type attribute, and it's value is then used to populate the rest of these attributes? <Yeah> Something like that. <OK>

22:38 CAKE
 - Could take a long time but will just do a few
 - "Nouns, mostly, like food"
P: So, [link to=Food...do I need a type as well?
I: You don't need a type
P: If I don't put text, will it just use the name of the article---the name of the page---or is that just required?
I: Afraid it's required
 - Copies the "[link to=" part.
 - Pretty much the nouns; certainly the proper, rest as appropriate
I: Was there another way you think you might have been able to do that?
P: Oh! Using the, er, magic word...
I: Yeah, generic links <Generic links>
P: So, to create a generic link, do you have to create it as a node, or is there another way of making them?
I: You'd have to create it a node is the easiest way I think
P: Ok
I: You want to try? You don't have to.
P: Yeah, I'm interested.
P: So for...do I use the magic link word as the name of the node, or?
I: Erm, you don't have to, but it might work actually.
P: [parallel] I have to give it a specific name.
 - calls it Food.GenericLink
P: Cause otherwise that other article...
I: Because this is the link itself, you're not putting a link in the body, you'll have to put it in the attributes area
P: Ok
 - Goes through attributes (P asks for type of quotes on CONTAINS)
P: So if I save that, and then change---in fact if I go to food I can probably see what links to this.
 - May need to create it (target) to see relations first
P: Oh it's done that, even thought it was already a link
I: Yep, it's probably...
P: Added some stuff...OH, because it's done this on the source but I think including the...
I: Yeah, it's put a link within a link, hasn't it.
P: Mmm. That's interesting.
I: You've done an interesting thing there.
P: Yeah.
P: I'll tell you what if I just get rid of that whole thing and just put the word food in. <OK> Hopefully it should just
I: It should stubbornly put the link back---yes it has
P: Yep. <Ok thanks> Well, there's a bug for you I guess. <Yeah> If that's not how it should...
I: It's sort of correct that both links have matched but unfotuntately (serialisation to HTML/text not very good at handling that, blah, generally interspersed with <yeah>)

27:06 VILLAINS
 - Can see both have section about Jaws <P: yeah>
I: Can you please add this [metallic] fact?
P: ...to both articles. <Mmmhmm>
P: Erm. Probably create a separate...hmm...node and transclude in perhaps, or creat it in an original Jaws page and then...transclude in? Erm.
I: Ok. Take whatever approach you feel.
P: Creating a Jaws page. <Ok> Um.
 - Checks fact to add
P: Do I have to create this as a particular kind of link to use it as a transclusion? I can't quite remember how that works.
I: No you can make an ordinary page.
P: Ok.
I: Erm, would you include any content from the other two?
P: Yes, I probably would actually. Um, I was just creating this literally as a place to have---
 - (don't have to do it now) would copy-paste some content
P: Although I can transclude just particular...portions of this text, so I could---could I transclude just "has metallic" for example?
P: Or would I have to transclude an entire page?
I: No you would have to transclude entire pages.
P: Right, in which case I'll take the heading out. <Ok>
P: And then, in these other two pages, I would...transclude...from the Jaws page. <Yep> In hindsight, I probably would have called that page "Jaws' teeth" <ok> or something.
P: Erm, so I think that's then...is it capital L Link, or <lowercase for [link> to=Jaws, type=Transclusion <yep>.
P: Erm. And will it automatically put in the...[body text] <yes>
P: Ok.
 - Copies to both pages.
P: Yep, and that's transcluded in to...<yep> on of the pages <and it should work in the other one, right>
P: Yeah [it's worked]

30:24 CONCLUDE
 - Final comments
P: In terms of the actual functionality, no...I think it's, fine, but it certainly could do with maybe some...nice interface trigger to make, erm, for example, I know it's difficult in HTML pages, but like source highlighting or something <yeah> Or even if it was just, maybe when you go to a page---let me think, somewhere with some content...er, so away from the henchmen page---um, say when you hover over a link, some ability to then edit it in place <right, ok>. But that's just like making it friendly for example.
I: [Edit] while you're viewing the page
P: Yeah, erm, because I certainly found with the, um, with the---when I was editing one of the Shelf pages that when you have just like *bam* loads of text it's difficult for people to pick out the syntax.
I: Nope, that's good, I agree.

P: And also, I don't know what level of...people this is aimed at, but initially, obviously when I questioned my first point, had I not done the hypertext course last year I wouldn't know anything about first-class links <yeah> or the fact that links could exist outside of a document. So I think that's difficult, like obviously at the moment where it's not a feature of---that people are aware of, in use, so....anyway.

 - Yes results
 - Yes voucher

32:35 END

